FuhQuake

[forsberg]

Considering alot of people use eggclocks or external timers, why not just put the mm:ss in the client ? Its in quake 3 standard

[fuh]

Of course there's seconds in cl_clock . Maybe you have a -ruleset in your cmdline that disabled it. Take it out if that's the case.

[Apollyon]

+showscores and +showteamscores already have minutes/seconds display, even with -ruleset smackdown. They are just a bit inconvinient to use - but that is the same with external/eggclocks.

[forsberg]

No I mean a for real clock. On the hud, where you want it, all the time. Just like in IE. q3. Since people use eggclocks and external (CHEAT) programs why not have the MM:SS on game on screen, for everyone to use. Not on scores, but on hud itself like ammo and health etc ;> And i mean game time clock not real time clock ;>

Btw fuh, what is cl_clock 1 ? cl_clock 2 is CET time (hehe my comp time ?)

[forsberg]

[Goljat]

use that angelina or what ever. That is pretty equal with external timers.
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[forsberg]

I dont want to use external programs, i just want the MM:SS timer that all the pro gamers use anyway. Its not a problem in ie. quake3, everyone knows the seconds, no problem. It was in older proxies for qw, and was removed because it was thought of as "cheat". Now that all you progamers _CHEAT_ anyways with 3rd party programs and hardware, why not put it in the proxy ?
There must be some valid arguments why....

[empezar]

because the HQWC says so

[Strife]

I really agree with forsberg on this issue!

[Apollyon]

Ok, ok, more "newbiefying" features to the masses! What else to we need in order to play fair again? What about dropping ALL restriction. I mean if everybody is enabled to use whatever questionable/cheaty feature he wants to, then it will be truly fair because nobody can argue that anyone is using an unfair workaround or whatever to gain an advantage as you can easily use it yourself.

[forsberg]

I understand your view, however i dont understand what you have againts the timer. You just call it a noob feature, and I say again in ie. Q3 everyone have the chance of knowing precicly when PU spawns, and its not a bad thing. Everyone knows it, the gangbang is huge. I bet alot play without 3rd party timers or hardware timers and shit like that, cause they just wanna login and play. oh well i gave it a shot ;>

[melody]

well Q3 is a different game. i think it's quite stupid to have them scripts to say "RA @ :23!!" "PENT @ :04" cause that's what it is in Q3. I think most of people still don't use timers, and if you really want to - use angelina or whatever, but don't whine that it's "easier if it's just on hud" because i still think most people don't want to. And if it's not the exact same seconds for everyone, timing scripts will not be a problem ..

[forsberg]

1. Apparently you dont know what im talking about. q3 do _not_ have ra spawns in 00:03 seconds. Q3 has a counter that starts on 20:00 in a 20 minute game and it counts down. Ofcourse everyone should be able to see the excact time, your argument very bad.

2. You think most people do not use timers and again your are wrong. I think its very sad that noone can come up with any real arguements in this matter, and I think its very sad to see that people use 3rd party programs to cheat, yes cheat is what i call that 3rd party programs that gives VERY CLEAR benifits to thoose who use it over those who dont.

3. What is the big difference between qw and q3 ? Seriously now, open .exe and gib.

[melody]

ok forsberg. i thought you knew a bit more about q3. I played it for 1-2 years, tdm-wise. Yes, it does have timerconfigs. You pick up ra at say, :25 . You press your ra-timer button, you press 2 5 on your keypad. Then you press your ra-timer-say button, it says "RA @ :50!" (25 sec is armorspawntime in q3). The same with quad. And yes, scripts like these would be developed to qw too. Actually i've seen Angua using some kind of script like this. Can't say how it works because i don't know, but he had some binds like "quad at :54". QW and q3 are different because (IMO) qw doesn't have the timer q3 has. And should not have. And yes, I can accept that you have a different opinion on whether qw should have in built timers. (by timer here i mean just the countdownclock).

And my opinion on the amount of people using timers, is ofcourse my biased div3 opinion. Yes at div1 everyone use timers, but i ment that most of qw-players don't use it. But i can't prove it, and i bet so can't you. And how can you say that 3rd party timers are cheats and in the same sentence ask for a built-in-one for fuhq..

[Apollyon]

Melody, timers are widespread even in the lower divisions. Forsberg's point is to make QW more fair again in this matter. Many clans are already using Angelina or similar programs in order to get exact timing. Others use eggclocks. My clan always plays from lan and we always have a 5th (sometimes 6th) man around with a stopclock/PDA/mobile telling us "quad in 15 seconds" and such.
I only started timing items like that a few months ago and it is a huge advantage. Being a lan team we will always be favoured but having inbuilt matchtime display would even everything out at least a bit. 1,5 years ago i would have opposed Forsberg's suggestion and the facht cl_clock is deactivated in ruleset smackdown is because we (the smackdown crew) specifically requested that. Now that i play more competetive than before i am not opposed to it anymore because i know there are lots of team using more or less uncomfortable workarounds already.
the sad thing is that the same arguments can be used for other things like forward rocket jump scripts, advanced teamplay messages and whatnot. My fear is that when we accept all these little things QW gets more and more shallow gameplaywise.

[melody]

Yes I understand that. But my point also is that accepting many little things by time, it does make the game much easier in the end. I think i'm not alone opposing timers, you can use them if you want to - you can use kfjump too. But having them inbuilt makes you quite forced to use them, and I'm still returning to the timerscript issue. Even in Q3 i thought they were lame, but in QW i think its quite much. You can't stop people making/using them when you have a synchronized timer on your screen.


Here is a quote from a readme of a Q3 -timer. Yes it looks nice, but i wouldn't want it to QW. If you want it, then i agree that i'm a minority and will accept it quietly... I think it's quite naive to think that these wouldn't be made for qw, as it has much more scriptingfeatures than q3.

[Angua]

Hehe, I knew someone would recognize that timing script pretty soon... I simply modified the q3 xs-timer and made some minor improvements. Together with flintheart's teamplay-config it works kind of like in q3. When I pick up quad for example, auto-took-quad types angelina_status, I get a time eg. 14:47, I choose item (currently quad and rl are implemented) by pressing a button and type in 47 on the keypad. It writes out "Quad :47" or "RL :17" depending on the item. A repeatbutton is also bound which can be spammed later on.

Thanks for mentioning me mel <3<3<3

[Angua]

and actually, my script isn't that easy to use atm as qw is a MUCH faster game than q3, you can't really let go of your mouse to type in some digits at any time... Additionally, all players in the team must use a timer, and it has to be set on the exact same time.

[forsberg]

what Angua said, still missing some good arguments why not to put the time in the client.

[Mercury]

use your brain u useless timing ppls, part of the game.
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